I am so sick of the junk that has been made of Elder Packer's talk. I thought it was amazing and powerful. I especially liked his boldness concerning the laws of God and how a vote cannot simply change them. Very well put, in my opinion. There were many other parts of the talk that provided a solid and doctrinally sound stance on morality. I don't want to blather on, even though I could, but rather just say that I am so tired of church members getting angry over this. I'm sure most of you are familiar with his talk and the parts being so criticized. It is no surprise really that there is so much opposition to the church in these times(it is the only true church on the face of the earth), but the ignorance saddens me.
Something interesting that I learned recently is that BYU used to perform aversion therapy for homosexuality. Are any of you familiar with this? It is quite a controversial method that has been discontinued for years.
Anywhoo, I hope all is well with everyone. I don't post much on here. It feels weird. Love you all.
Lance
9 comments:
I agree. I am surprised by the faithlessness of members of the church. I felt his talk was misunderstood. I also know that the Lord will not let his leaders lead us astray and that means that if you hear something from your leader that you don't understand or agree with you have the right and the responsibility to go to the Lord and ask him if what was said is true. And then you trust the Lord. It's just crazy to me. I feel like the anger from the members is the start of apostacy. It's very sad.
P.S. I read an entry from someone who is a member of the church and gay. It was very interesting. He heard the talk and he, through the spirit, understood what was being said and took a positive stand and supported Pres. Packer. Maybe I'll find the link if you want to read it.
There is a prophecy that states that in the last days "even the very elect shall fall" indicating that there will be a divison amongst the members. Perhaps this is what will cause the division. I don't hate gays (I actually dislike lebsians more) on a personal basis, but I hate the actions and behaviors that are immoral. I hate the idea that they can adopt innocent babies and raise them in that atmosphere. There are a lot of things I dislike about the situation. But I dislike the members' anger more. It's about time we had more members of our Quroum of Apostles stand up and call a spade a spade and say, "Repent!" Prophets of old did it all the time, causing great unpopularity amongst the general populace. Kudos to President Packer. Perhaps, underneath all the anger is fear in the members because maybe they will have to stand up for something that will set them apart. Maybe they are fearful of having to prove what they believe and who they really are.
I did know a little about some kind of therapy BYU did with gays because my former Stake President (Victor L. Brown) was involved in the studies they did for several years. He wrote books about it and was heavily involved in parts of it. I didn't know the name of it and didn't know if it was still being practiced.
Iowa City has been ranked as one of the most gay-friendly towns in the United States. Since being here I have worked with gay men and women. One of my best friends is gay. I didn't know he was gay until years after we became friends when he left his wife and came out. I am sure the situation was difficult for his wife and children. He assured me that he had always been faithful to his wife but that he had been very unhappy for a long time. He said that he knew for years that he was gay but tried everything he could to live as he knew he should. I don't condone his behavior but I love him. He is a good man who treats others well and was a great help to me when I have needed it most. This situation has enabled me to better separate the act from the person and I believe has helped me to treat others in a more Christlike manner.
Having said that, here is my take on the issue. First, is my friend's same sex desire genetic or learned? Who cares. Either way, fornication is to be avoided at all costs. Far too many people use their genes as an excuse for their behavior. My genes tell me that I like women. That is no excuse to bed everything with two X chromosomes though. Research has also shown that there is a strong genetic component to alcoholism. However, unlike homosexual behavior, we actively treat alcoholism as a problem and teach people that they can overcome that addiction. In today's society we will never actively treat homosexuality as a problem because the desire for a deep relationship (including a sexual one) is basic to the human condition. And because the belief in universal truths has become the sign of an uneducated person in our "progressive" society, we do everything in our power to make sure that we don't condem anyone for anything. Take for example the desicion here in Iowa by the state supreme court to allow gay marriage. I believe that we are the only state in which the entire court came down on the side of gay marriage. In our rush to prove to the rest of the United States that Iowa is not just a bunch of backward rednecks, we have allowed our courts to legislate something with which the majority of Iowans disagree (three of those judges terms are up for renewal this election cycle. How much do you want to bet they will lose their jobs?).
The Lord will never allow us to be tempted beyond what we are able to withstand. Kudos to Elder Packer for standing for universal truths.
I loved the kitty story. I laughed out loud during that part of his talk. I listened to his talk when it was originally given and read it again today. Well said and I think people need to just repent or there's going to be a big fire buring and soon. Just hope I'm the one roasting the marshmallows and not in the fire.
I haven't seen any complaint from people in my ward, but I've seen the Salt Lake Tribune articles and the thousands of comments. I thought nothing of Elder Packer's message (i.e., I didn't think it was a big deal and had no idea the attention it would garner) and didn't disagree with anything he said. It does take quite a bit of courage to say those things in today's society, and I like Mom's point about how we're all going to have to stand up for something (or we'll fall for anything!). I've not been confronted at work by anyone so it's been easy going so far.
It do think it's very important to, as Jason said, separate the act from the person. Not all Mexicans are bad, just as not all people struggling with homosexuality are the spawn of Satan. That's tea party talk. Ugh. -Jess
I agree with Jason.
I was thinking about this analogy, which I know isn't very good, but...
So Dad has diabetes and I have been told by doctors that I am borderline diabetic. I am predispoded to diabetes and probably will become diabetic. However, even though the genetic tendency is there, I don't have to allow it to happen. It still might regardless of what I do but I can choose to eat empty carbs and load my body with too much food. I can choose to exercise and stay healthy and eat the best I can. I can choose to eat small amounts or I can choose to eat too much and become over weight. Definitely it is harder for me than someone who doesn't have this genetic predisposition. But, the fact remains, I can do what I want with it.
I have thought about this and Boyd K. Packers talk a lot. He was not saying that people aren't born with genetic tendencies towards same sex attraction. He was saying that it depends on what you do with that. It is the temptation you have to overcome even if it is something natural to you.
My heart aches for those members that deal with this temptation. It is something I am not sure I would be able to overcome. I hurt for them and totally disagree with the bullying that has been going on lately. That is not ok.
Do any of you know what a California mormon is? Well, it's a steriotype just like a Utah mormon is. However, sometimes, if the shoe fits...
In line with this steriotype of california mormons, I find that they look at being gay as "cool" or "okay". Even mormons feel like it's cool to have a friend that is gay. They go out of their way to make friends with them just to show how okay they are with this. Almost just to be rebelious toward the teachings of the church. They pride themselves on being "open minded" and "understanding of people that are 'born' with this struggle of being gay". Every time I have a conversation about the gay issue, I always find those mormons that think we're just being closeminded or not loving toward all of God's children. I just want to say "shame on you". Do they not understand the teachings of the prophets? They have been so incredibly straight forward with this issue. It states it plain as day in the Proclimation to the World. Do you sustain your prophets and apostles? If so, maybe you should re-read was has been said.
I completely agree with Jason. I don't look at the person as being evil, I look at the act as being evil. And, it's just what Adrianne says as well. It's a temptation just like every other temptation the Lord has given us. It may be a much harder one to overcome than others, but we are still required to overcome them. This is satan working his powers and trying to destroy the power of homes and family. Why are we as mormons allowing this to happen? We have enough problems having to face and stand up to people outside the church. Can't we as a body of people within the church be on the same page? Grow a backbone people and stand up for something!!!! Way to go Elder Packer!
p.s. can't you tell I get fired up about this...:)
Lindsey
Elder Packer said just what needed to be said. And I think it's about time somebody stood up and said it. Kudos.
You all should get a copy of the book Setting the Record Straight, Mormons & Homosexuality. It is by Dr. A. Dean Byrd. It is a paper back book and not very expensive. It is the clearest and most extensive book I have ever read on the subject. He speaks of remarks that Elder Packer has made in the past. They are extensive.
I found Elder Packers remarks to be right on the mark. However, I am very distressed that someone decided to change the wording in his written address, even the little that it was changed. I asked a friend, Dave Roth, Ammon's dentist about it a couple of days ago. He is the Stake President in the Harriman area of SL county. He said he did not see why it was changed and he also thought that President Packer was not behind the change.
I was very diagusted with the church spokesman on the subject of the change. He also mentioned the support the Church has given to the recent laws in Salt Lake City on housing and employment discrimination. I am personally appalled at the whole thing.
I appreciate Jason's remarks about his friend. That is the root of the whole discussion of the problem. Even those who are having problems with sin still need and deserve to be treated with love. That said, however, it still does not seem right to me that I should need to allow a rental that I own next door to me to be inhabited by a practicing homosexual. That is what the SLC law requires if the situation should come up.
Dad Clark
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