Wow. We're all kinda boring this week.
So here's a new topic to discuss: 1.How would you define temptation? 2. Do you think there will be temptations before us after we die, and (hopefully) become exhalted beings? and 3. Do you think Christ was ever really tempted while on earth?
Brent and I had a really interesting discussion about this the other night. Curious what you all think.
13 comments:
I'm not sure how I would define temptation. I don't know if we will be tempted when we die but I do feel like part of being exalted means that we will be able to handle the trials that come our way. I believe it was a trial for God to watch Christ die, and He is exalted. I think we will still have trials but our capacity and understanding to deal with them will be magnified. I do believe Christ was actually tempted while on the earth. If you look at the things the devil presented to him when he was fasting, they are all things that in my opinion could be real temptations for Jesus Christ. They seem very personal temptations that for someone else might not be a temptation but I believe they were real for the Savior. And, of course, he withstood them and denied the Devil.
Oh, and Mike and I were talking about this and both think that of course there will be trials because why would God have us come to earth to learn to control ourselves in every way only to not have to use that control in the afterlife. And, if we believe that when you die you will still have the same desires ("the same spirit that posesses your body") will still be there, then that seems to imply that you will still have trials and temptations.
Mike defines temptation as something that leads us to want to do something against God's will and sin would be actually doing it.
Temptation is generally the opportunity to choose between immediate gratification and delayed benefit. Do I eat that piece of pie now (yes, yes, yes!!!)or do I go for a run (misery!). Tempation has always existed and will always exist. I don't know that temptation has been or always will be presented the same way though. We know that we had agency in the pre-existance and that some were mighty and great presumably based on their choices. However, as far as we know, there was no adversary like there is now. So what about post-earth life? We know that we will continue to be tried and that we will continue to have the opportunity to progress through our choices. I would imagine that progression in the spirit world will be much more difficult than it is here due to the absence of a physical body. Regardless, temptation will be there. Exaltation will come when we no longer have the desire to make the wrong choices even when they are presented.
I do think that Christ was tempted while here on the earth. How could he understand our struggles to overcome temptation and truly be our advocate if he hadn't been tempted? I think that he still had to show Heavenly Father that he would do all that he was commanded to do the same as we must.
I have a love/hate relationship with temptation. I hate that I give in so easily all too often but I love it (perhaps love is much too strong a word here) because it means that Heavenly Father must still see enough potential that he allows me the opportunity to be tried in order to prove myself worthy to enter into his presence someday.
See, I don't really understand how Christ could have been tempted. We're always taught that he was perfect. How can that be if he were truly tempted? I do believe that he needed to be tested, though. I don't think he could've been our Savior without knowing all our problems, including temptations. So how do these 2 ideas coincide?
It says in the scriptures that Job was a perfect man. He was tempted through so many trials and yet he stayed strong and faithful. Why couldn't Christ have been truly tempted with hunger, power, etc.? He simply was pure enough not to give in to the temptations presented to him.
I'm not certain about temptations in the next life. We will grow and develop, but I don't think it will be in the same way. It states specifically in the B of M that the attitudes we have when we die will rise with us in the resurrection. A lot of people in the church are turning more and more to the idea that we can still repent after we die. I don't know if I agree with that. I hear it all the time. We have this mortal life to at least prove who we are and what our inclinations will be. For those that didn't hear the gospel, they will be given the opportunity to prove whether they would accept it or not. Would there be temptations for them at that point? I don't think so, at least in the frame that we think about with mortal temptations.
I just don't know for sure. One thing I do think -- we had better get our acts cleaned up here while we have the chance.
I think you can still be perfect and tempted. The perfection is that he didn't give into it but he is not above temptations. That's my opinion though.
I guess in my definition of temptation, it implies that to be tempted, one must have a desire or inclination to want to do something contrary to the will of God. It doesn't mean you will choose that, just that there is a choice you would consider. For instance, if someone tries to offer me a 2000 calorie cake, I may be tempted to take it if it was one that looked REALLY good and had the flavors I liked. If however, that same cake was made of something I didn't really like (marchino cherries for instance...), I wouldn't be tempted to take it because I don't desire it at all. The choice to take it is still there, but the desire is gone. Therefore, the "temptation" is gone.
So, given my definition, did Christ then "desire" to do something contrary to the will of God?
Well, He had a physical body just like yours and mine and just like our bodies desire things contrary to God's will, so did His.
In the Doctrinal New Testament Commentary it says, "Jesus dwelt in mortality as a man. He was subject to all of the passions, desires, appetites, and temptations that go with this mortal probation. To work out his own salvation, h ehad to overcome the flesh, bridle his passions, control his desires and appetites, and resist the tempting wiles of Lucifer....Though he 'was in all pointes tempted like as we are, yet [he remained] without sin.' Hebrews 4:15. But in accordance twith teh eternal laws of free agency he could have succumbed to temptation; he could have lost his own soul and failed in his divinely appointed mission. That he remained true to his trust, that he was faithful and obedient to the whole law, made him the great Exemplar, th elight o fhte world, who could say to all men, 'Follow thou me.'...As with all men, Jesus was tempted from time to time...that they were real [the temptations] and that overcoming them constituted a major spiritual triumph is evident.
That's good stuff, Adrianne. This is just a subject matter I don't think people talk about too much.
Where'd you get that book?
That's good stuff, Adrianne. This is just a subject matter I don't think people talk about too much.
Where'd you get that book?
I got the book off of Amazon. It's written by Elder McConkie and it's like 900 pages long. I've been using it as my study guide for the New Testament. It has a few verses written and then it will have comments about those verses underneath. It's taking me awhile to get through the book. I'm almost on 800 pages though so there is an end in sight. I really like it. You should see if you can find one somewhere--it's really helped my scripture study.
I think Christ had to be tempted while on the earth. Not just be faced with the opportunity to sin, but to have the opportunity to overcome a carnal desire. If he never felt "tempted" to sin, how can he actually know how to properly succor us in our time of need.
I have the opportunity to smoke every day. I see cigarettes, I can buy them, and I can smoke them. But it's not really a temptation, so I experience no growth or kudos for "overcoming" that temptation. It's the temptations that I receive and have to actually fight within myself to not give in where the growth occurs. I think Christ had to feel those same things. -Jess
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